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Europhile/Eurosceptic
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 Are you in favour of the EU?
In general - Yes (11 votes)
52.38%
In general- No (10 votes)
47.62%
21 Votes Total
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Europhile/Eurosceptic  This thread currently has 635 views. Print
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Postmac
July 19, 2010, 12:48pm Report to Moderator
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Posts: 138
Just struck me from some of the discussions about sterling falling/rising that there appears to be a eurosceptic bent to some of the commentary.

I was wondering in general whether people are pro or anti EU. So I thought I'd do up this poll. Haven't doen one before so hopefully this turns out ok.
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lenina
July 19, 2010, 1:15pm Report to Moderator
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in general - PRO - EU. I think that Europe has a shared cultural heritage and history as opposed to, say, the US or Asia. The borders within Europe and our sense of separate 'nation states' are a fairly recent invention anyway. I would like to see the combination of a sense of national pride - albeit mostly based on fiction (such as what we see in Scotland) - with a broad view of being part of a united, inclusive Europe with a shared culture and history. A single currency is part and parcel of that.


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maurross
July 19, 2010, 9:56pm Report to Moderator
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Iagree,  but have become sceptical about the way it is run. For example, the amount of money it costs; the gravy train of Euro MPs who we never hear from; the amount of times the big guns have gone in to investigate fraud.
But most of all I hate the way that they are trying to make us all clones. They want to change the way of life and culture of some countries - thinking that they are too backward, have too many hours for lunch etc when everybody should really be out working long hours, stressed out etc.
We now know that this is all to do with making money and no amount of hard work stopped the greedies from causing the global collapse. So we should not be paying any more attention to what they advise ever again. Maybe we should slow down, keep the old traditions and live and let kive.
The Political Correctness is driving folk daft. Also the scares and fears mongers really use stuff to keep jobs for the boys and to keep their little empires in Brussels going. And of course it is costing us so much to keep everything clinical, sanitised, elf anfdsafety etc. We will be charged for breathing next - oops we already are.
Things have gone too far for me I am sorry to say as generally it was a great idea.
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Levissima
July 19, 2010, 10:49pm Report to Moderator

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I looked at Baz’s video today and saw the war cemetery so I am definitely pro EU. Unity may cost money but disunity cost lives and I know which I think is a cost worth paying.


Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
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Romus
July 20, 2010, 8:27am Report to Moderator

Live in the moment.
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Quoted from Levissima
I looked at Baz’s video today and saw the war cemetery so I am definitely pro EU. Unity may cost money but disunity cost lives and I know which I think is a cost worth paying.


In total agreement for  Pro EU. Regardless of leadership  style ( you will always have those that try and rip the system off) ; Peace ,International cooperation and economic prosperity  is the  better way.The new challenge   is to maintain this without too much cultural changes which make europe the way it is. Cheers

Romus  
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lushsandwich
July 20, 2010, 5:29pm Report to Moderator

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Absolutely Brilliant

The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the European Union rather than German, which was the other possibility.

As part of the negotiations, the British Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5- year phase-in plan that would become known as "Euro-English".

In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c".. Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favour of "k". This should klear up konfusion, and keyboards kan have one less letter.

There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with "f".. This will make words like fotograf 20% shorter.

In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible.

Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling.

Also, al wil agre that the horibl mes of the silent "e" in the languag is disgrasful and it should go away.

By the 4th yer people wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v".

During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and after ziz fifz yer, ve vil hav a reil sensi bl riten styl.

Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi TU understand ech oza. Ze drem of a united urop vil finali kum tru.

Und efter ze fifz yer, ve vil al be speking German like zey vunted in ze forst plas.

If zis mad you smil, pleas pas on to oza pepl.








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Transformer Man
July 20, 2010, 6:12pm Report to Moderator

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anti eu

It is an expense that the UK cannot afford any longer, around £65 bn a year.

Most of which is spent wasted on the CAP.

I have no objection to helping a neighbour country, who may have, through no fault of their own, fallen upon hard times. That is the heart of charity.
But to contribute to a gravy train that makes the Westminster expenses scandal look like a drop in the ocean?

The UK should be free to negotiate trade deals with each country in europe as it sees fit.


To go against conscience is neither right nor safe. I cannot, and I will not recant. Here I stand. I can do no other.
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Yorkshirewitch
July 20, 2010, 8:47pm Report to Moderator

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Would rather be a European than an American anyday.

We need to look more towards Europe and less often across the Atlantic!


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redslk
July 20, 2010, 9:33pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Transformer Man
anti eu

It is an expense that the UK cannot afford any longer, around £65 bn a year.

Most of which is spent wasted on the CAP.

I have no objection to helping a neighbour country, who may have, through no fault of their own, fallen upon hard times. That is the heart of charity.
But to contribute to a gravy train that makes the Westminster expenses scandal look like a drop in the ocean?

The UK should be free to negotiate trade deals with each country in europe as it sees fit.


Shouldn't the UK or any other country be able to make trade deals any where in the world?

I agree with co-operation, but don't agree with uncontrolable gravy trains.

Andy


Don't fart in wet suits.
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dolcevita
July 21, 2010, 7:06am Report to Moderator

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Pro EU we never want to see another war in Europe again.

If the gravy train is what it takes its a small price to pay.


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Postmac
July 21, 2010, 7:49am Report to Moderator
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The UK is free is to negotiate trade deals with any EU country as it sees fit - that is at the heart of economic union and it's why the EU has developed. But the UK is also part of a much larger economis community. Because of the EU the UK is part of a pan-european market without economic borders and other countries are banned by law from imposing barriers to access to those markets on the UK or any other country in the EU. The existence of the EU has opened up a huge market for UK goods and services with ease of access. Sure the UK has to contribute to the EU coffers but look what UK industry gets in return.

Also much of the equality and progressive legislation that we have seen over the past 20 years is due in large part to the EU.

Echoing earlier comments - when you think back to the last century - isn't it better that all EU countries pool their sovereignty and sit down in a room together to try to agree common approaches to issues rather than each country going it alone?

It's clear that the EU is far from perfect but then what system of government is?
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Transformer Man
July 21, 2010, 9:31am Report to Moderator

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Except that the UK is not free to negotiate unilateral deals where existing EU deals are in place.

Think Fishing!

And UK industry benefits are far outweighed by the contributions the UK make.

As for ceding our sovereignty to people who do not have our country's' best interests at heart just strikes me as crazy.

To me it is an extra layer of bureaucracy that just isn't required, much the same as the Scottish parliament.


To go against conscience is neither right nor safe. I cannot, and I will not recant. Here I stand. I can do no other.
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Postmac
July 22, 2010, 10:31am Report to Moderator
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Bit lengthy but thought you's enjoy this....

What has the EU ever done for us? Apart from………
Safer and Cheaper Flights
The EU has provided us with not only safer flights but also cheaper flights and increased competition between carriers registered in the Member States. Cheaper flights are the knock-on effect of a huge improvement in air traffic management and increased competition.
Airlines deemed to be unsafe are now banned from travelling into any EU country. Recently some of Pakistan's national carrier were barred because of safety fears.

The Single Market
The Single Market is one of a kind as it guarantees ‘free movement' of people, goods, services and capital. At a practical level, it provides the possibility for EU citizens to live, work, study and do business throughout the EU, as well as enjoy a wide choice of competitively priced goods and services.
It may not be good for the environment but access to second homes a short-haul flight away has fulfilled the dreams of millions of Britons. Retirement or regular holidays from the south of Spain or Italy or to the east of Bulgaria has become a reality for many and a legally safeguarded one at that.

Peace
Peace in Europe was first created when an alliance was made between Germany and France and the European Coal and Steel Community was founded. Europe has come along way since with a lasting peace amongst its Member States. While rows between England, France and Germany have been a feature of EU summits, war between Europe's major powers is now unthinkable. The fact that the two world wars that shaped the last century now seem so remote is, in itself, tribute to a visionary project that has permanently changed the landscape. As the EU celebrated the 50th anniversary of the signing of the Treaty of Rome it is clear that while the detailed topography will always be difficult to agree, it is an extraordinary achievement that we are standing on common ground.

The Euro
The single currency, the Euro, is now part of our everyday life but not all of its benefits are well known. From the practical advantages of travelling with a single currency, to the benefits of economic growth, to the strengthening of the EU international role and its political integration, the introduction of the euro has achieved much more than people expected.

Cheaper and Better Phone calls
The liberalisation of the telecommunication markets in 1998 and the ongoing development in the field of technology have resulted in a steady decrease in prices within the EU. This means that it is cheaper to call your friends and family and choose between different operators.

Consumer Protection
Consumer protection and the safety of food in the European Union are two issues that have always gone hand in hand. The Health and Consumer Protection Directorate General's main responsibility is to provide laws and regulations on the safety of food and consumer rights.
Any consumer can send back a product if it breaks down within two years of purchase. Manufacturers often claim that they offer only a 12 month guarantee, but EU law states otherwise and consumers are demanding their rights.

European consumers can buy goods for their own use in whichever EU country they choose - in person, on the internet, over the telephone, or by mail order - without paying additional taxes. This competition is driving down prices and increasing quality

A Healthier Europe
The public health issues dealt with by the EU are numerous and cover a number of different areas. They concern both men and women, young and old. The EU has also introduced the European health insurance card that is your guarantee if you should fall ill when going abroad.

Environmental Protection
In the EU, environmental issues including initiatives concerning protection have been underlined as some of the most important points not only for discussion but also for action. For instance, the EU is leading the "Kyoto" drive to reduce the air pollution that causes global warming.
EU law and peer pressure - including annual reports - have forced the UK to clean up its act, for example bringing the once-dirty waters off Blackpool beach up to standard. The first EU legislation was passed in 1976 with two more pieces in 2002 and 2006. Now you can monitor the quality of bathing water by checking on a website.

Equal Opportunities - Against Discrimination
The promotion of equal opportunities and the fight against Discrimination are considered some of the most important issues within Europe and many directives have been put in place to combat inequalities that occur in the Member States.

The EU Working Time Directive ensures that all Europeans get at least four weeks of paid holiday per year. In the US many workers get a fortnight. The same directive provides for 11 hours rest in every 24 and one day of rest per week plus a rest break if the working day is longer than six hours. Minimum standards are set for paid maternity and paternity leave.

Democracy is flourishing in 27 countries
Spain, Portugal, Greece, and the EU's 10 ex-Communist countries are parliamentary democracies. None of these nations were truly free in the decades following the Second World War. Each is now a democracy anchored within the EU and is unlikely to change course.

Shopping without frontiers has given consumers more power
European consumers can buy goods for their own use in whichever EU country they choose - in person, on the internet, over the telephone, or by mail order - without paying additional taxes. This competition is driving down prices and increasing quality

Co-operation on continent-wide immigration policy
Though EU countries set immigration levels the EU is increasingly active in the fight against illegal migration and in trying to match the labour needs of European countries to the supply of migrants. On the downside, the EU is increasingly an impregnable fortress and many lose their lives trying to get here by boat from Africa

Crime-busting co-operation, through Europol
This provides a clearing house for EU police forces. The police in EU member states can now use an EU arrest warrant to get suspects moved from one country to another where they will face serious charges without lengthy extradition procedures.

No death penalty (incompatible with EU membership)
No EU member state has the death penalty and reintroduction of capital punishment would not be compatible with EU membership. Even countries outside the EU are having to review their policies if they want to be considered for membership of the club, most notably Turkey.

Small EU bureaucracy (24,000 employees, fewer than the BBC)
Despite the eurosceptic claims, the number of EU officials is surprisingly small. After the scandal of 1999 when the Brussels based European Commission resigned, strict new rules were imposed on spending.

Making the French eat British beef again
When the BSE crisis subsided and British meat was judged safe, the European Court of Justice ordered France to resume imports. France contested the ruling but had no alternative in the end.

Introduction of pet passports
Since 2004 travelling across borders with pets has been easier. In addition to pet passports with a vaccination certificate pets require permanent identification which can be either a tattooed code on the skin or a microchip which can be read by a special machine. In the future the microchip is likely to be obligatory.

European driving licences recognised
Driving licences issued in one EU country are valid in any other, providing they are modern, EU-standard, ones with a photo identity. This means that the old days of having to gain translations for a UK permit to drive in Italy are over.

EU gives more, not less, sovereignty to nation states
Switzerland and Norway, two independent countries have little or no negotiating leverage when they deal with the EU. In fact they have less sovereignty than member states who decide the policy. Britons are more able to control their own destiny - in areas from international trade, to environmental protection, to consumer rights - because they are part of a 27 nation, democratic bloc. Real sovereignty, rather than theoretical sovereignty, is enhanced by EU membership.

Maturing EU is a proper counterweight to the power of US and China
As it develops common foreign and defence policies, the EU is finding its voice. Europe's interests and those of America and the emerging powers, such as China and India, will sometimes coincide, sometimes conflict. Could Britain's interests be protected if we stood alone or if we became a junior partner of the US?

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Transformer Man
July 22, 2010, 11:18am Report to Moderator

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I thought the humour section had been closed?


To go against conscience is neither right nor safe. I cannot, and I will not recant. Here I stand. I can do no other.
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Alberto Bertorelli
July 22, 2010, 11:33am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Postmac
Bit lengthy but thought you's enjoy this....

What has the EU ever done for us? Apart from………


Well I am sure the intention was there but in reality ......most of these things in practice have not made the average Joe's life any easier moving from one euro state to another you still have to face the bureaucracy just look at any forum.  


When my wife first met me she knew immediately I was Mr Right, it was sometime later she realised my christian name was Always.

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